in the time and energy and effort and the physical, you know, act of making a phone call is violating the federal law. i don't see how the president's getting away with it and i certainly don't see why the president's people are letting him get away with it except i guess they think they can sort of, you know, bully their way through this by saying, oh, we're not selling access when their literature says $500,000 and you get quarterly meetings with the white house and the president. >> sean: that's the point. it's there in black and white and you can read it and you have jay carney, perfectly acceptable. >> perfectly acceptable. >> sean: now, i understand under eric holder, which is a justice department that has been politicized, nothing's going to happen then, but is there any -- do you see potential legal problems for the president as you know, considering all the mistakes that they've made and all the evidence they left behind? >> well, look, i do think this is -- first of all, we'll leave it up to the lawyers to decide. i'm not a lawyer, but i've talked to people who are ethics la
